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There's no question that TDKR will be another SM3. In fact, it will fall way short of the overcrowded SM3 and that says a lot.
TDKR will destroy Spiderman 3, show Sam Raimi how to make a truly great third installment, and sit along side the greatest trilogies in film history, if not at the very top of the pile.
trolling pretty hard for a monday with 5 of your top 10 marvel comics I have to assume we have a fanboy. Also you are saying TDKR will be another spiderman 3, but you have both batman begins and the dark night in your 50 worst movies list? so according to you they all sucked not just the 3rd one which hasnt even come out yet.
The Dark Knight Rises crushes easily.
The Dark Knight Rises officially kills the comic book trilogy curse dead, easily demolishing Raimi's 3rd effort.
Nolan successfully maintained the incredibly high standard he had set with the first two films of the series in The Dark Knight Rises.
Eh, there's nothing I can say about Spider-Man 3 that hasn't already been said. It just ain't a good movie. The Dark Knight Rises was a (mostly) successful ending to Christopher Nolan's trilogy. DC Comics wins this one.
TDKR may be flawed, but at least Bruce Wayne didn't spontaneously turn emo halfway through and start dancing around Gotham.
^ great analogy of Spiderman 3 hahaha. Rises all the way.
It tough being right all the time but someone has to do it. There's really is little question that TDKR fell short of even SM3. Sure that sequel was overcrowded but it offered so much more than Nolan's third entry. This really is a fitting match-up because the third films in both runs were the weakest. Matching TDKR against anything else is silly. The more you break down SM3, the more good things that jump out at you. Yes, it has its flaws but far less so than TDKR. SM3 gets a lot of hate from the truly ignorant but that's nothing new.
Spiderman 3 is unwatchable. At the very least I think most people can get through Dark Knight Rises without constantly cringing.
With far better introduced characters, more powerful performances by established characters, a much smarter, far less lazy script and strong character development for its main protagonist, THE DARK KNIGHT RISES absolutely crushes SP3 with its mighty black boot. SP3 gets consistently worse upon repeat viewings, from the drastically poor writing of Harry, Mary Jane and Sandman to the ridiculous plot contrivances ("Maybe it's just a bird, don't check, just turn on the deadly machine" and "The night your father died" being explained long after Harry's amnesia and getting his face disfigured) to the ridiculous and pointless retconning of Uncle Ben's murder which is never addressed fully to the shoehorning of Venom to Peter's utter character assassination. In every single measurable aspect, THE DARK KNIGHT RISES is far superior.
Rises by a goddamn mile.
The Dark Knight Rises because DC>Marvel.
At least this is a debate worth having because these films are almost on the same level. Both are below the elite films. The thing is, Spider-Man 3 is still above TDKR. If needs be, I'll point out why. Forget gut reaction and the way some pile on Spider-Man 3. Reality is different than that gut reaction at this point.
Every single vicious criticism lobbed at SP3 is completely valid, there is no hyperbole because everything bad about the film really is just that bad. THE DARK KNIGHT RISES may not be flawless (Like every CBM that came out in 2012), but its flaws are far less numerous, no where near as glaring, and its strong points are FAR stronger.
What Boonmee said.
Batman thumps Spider-Man here. And quite easily....
Honestly, Spider-Man 3 gets the nod and it's not much of a battle. It at least spent its budget properly and had entertaining action sequences. TDKR has bruce being Batman for all of three minutes.
I admire Raimi for both his boldness and his moxy. He gave us a movie in Spider-Man 3 that doesn’t feel the need to hold the viewers hand or the need to connect every dot. He assumes a viewer is intelligent enough to shift through inconsequential matters and that’s remarkably refreshing. He doesn’t feel the need to waste exposition on the nature of the Sandman or Venom’s powers. Just watch, learn and enjoy. Watching Peter’s first experience with the black suit and the intoxication it provides leads to a crisp and complex internal struggle that plays out masterfully. Peter becomes addicted and starts to look to the suit for a boost and even to overcome insecurities. If you’re smart enough, you pick up these nuances and you enjoy the film even more.
You've got to give it to Nolan, with two such brilliantly written and directed characters in Hardy's Bane and Anne's Selina Kyle, he has officially risen in the ranks as one of the master film makers of the 21st century. Kyle's brilliant, subtle transitions from shy, awkward maid to stylishly alluring Catwoman to screaming hysterical woman in bar and all of the intricate nuances in between such as her gradual warming to Bruce Wayne (which is also an allegory for softening up to the rich as she lowers her veil of contempt for the "1%" and seeing them for something different underneath). Hardy's Bane is simply a beast, easily the best villain of 2012 and one of the most brutal, intimidating villains to ever come across the big screen, the Darth Vader of the 21st century. Raimi obviously screwed the pooch with his lackluster, lazily written and directed third installment. Peter's storyline is handled atrociously, with no discernible direction and piss poor transitions from "Comedy" to "Dark". Everything is rushed, shoved off to the side, and just handled extremely poorly with such ridiculous bits of exposition as "I'm not a bad person" (so much for 'trusting the audience'), inane, useless banter from Aunt Mae, and a "love triangle" that has no idea where its going and is filled with logic gaps and terrible characterization.
It's Aunt May, not Mae. Anywho, looking at the positive there’s little doubt that Raimi has made the movie that flow and he drew upon the work he already did with this franchise. The Haters must look and see that the supporting characters from the previous films are used with surgical yet powerful precision. Aunt May’s few scenes are vital as she continues to serve as Peter’s moral compass. Even the landlord and Ursula from the second film serve a poignant purpose and add to the rich depth Raimi has built. It’s obvious that Peter has won over the cranky landlord because Pete’s a likable man of character. Peter’s taking advantage of Ursula not only serves to illustrate his dark turn but adds more perfect humor to the film. Raimi also manages to make the most out of the one new non-villain character he introduces in Gwen. Not only is she integral to the story but her early interaction reinforces everything we know about Peter. Despite being a near intellectual genius, he knows little about relationships and affairs of the heart. Gwen serves as an antagonist to MJ but manages to remain likeable throughout. Even Harry’s butler Bernard steps up and helps this movie to flow. Can you say that about TDKR? The supporting cast their are great actors with nothing to do.
Sp3's supporting cast is completely useless in every possible interpretation of the word. "May" (So forgettable that misspelling the name is easy) does nothing but prattle on about inconsequential times of her youth in a way that will have no payoff and be rendered meaningless the moment she stops talking. Rosemary Harris could have been written out of the film altogether and nothing would have changed. Ursula and her father say nothing of importance and get shunted to the side, nothing more than soulless automatons for Peter to snap at once. The "humor" in this film is poorly written, 5-year old level, eye-rolling dreck that only serves to eat up screen time and clash when the film is trying to get "Dark". Gwen is entirely pointless and serves as nothing more than some faceless vessel with no personality for MJ to get jealous over. The butler has got to be the worst character out of the bunch, with only one scene which does nothing but show what a complete and total incompetent moron he is by telling Harry FAR too late in the film about what happened in the first film, resulting in the most contrived, bullsh*t character turnaround ever seen. Alfred's interaction with Bruce in the first half and the heart wrenching grief shown near the end added more depth and substance to THE DARK KNIGHT RISES alone than all of those other characters combined, to say nothing for the contributions of Gordon, Selina and Blake (They're just better written characters with more personality and more to do).
This is interesting. Come on, anyone that wasn't moved by Aunt May's story about her and Ben and how he purposed has no heart. And, the action scene right after is still one of the better presented and filmed action sequences EVER in a comic adaptation film. The Harry vs Peter sky battle is a highlight of that series. Any series when you think about it.
Not really, it sounded artificial and used about twice as much dialogue and detail as was necessary to tell it. Harry/Peter was short, bland, and resulted in one of the biggest soap opera cop outs to finish that I've ever seen (Amnesia).
Spider-Man 3 proved more than anything seen in TDKR that to retain a crisp yet intelligent movie, knowing what to omit is an important as what to show. I don’t need to see Peter looking for any remnants of the black suit after he recovers from the trauma of separating himself from it. Transitioning to him in the shower then on with the story is perfect. I’m smart enough to understand why MJ breaks up with Peter on the bridge. She truly fears for his life because Harry not only wields incredible strength but he’s clearly maniacally twisted and has the money and resources to more then follow up on his threat. I also understand that Sandman isn’t the sharpest tool in the drawer. He’s every bit the loser his wife accuses him of being. He teams with Venom because he knows that Spider-Man really tried to kill him. As is the case with the Uncle Ben robbery, he clearly didn’t think about the consequences of his actions. After partaking in the battle royal, it makes perfect sense that he would simply quit fighting after confronted with those consequences. Again, it’s actually good work no matter what the haters say and failed to appreciate.
The remarkable depth of the interrelationships between Bruce/Alfred/Gordon/Blake/Selina help make THE DARK KNIGHT RISES a much more intelligent and far more soulful film than sp3. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why MJ couldn't just say "Harry's evil, go beat him up" and have Peter do it. The entire scene was just a desperate attempt to stretch out the films bloated run time. Sandman was wasted in the film, pretty much just walking around sewers and back alleys while the film tried to find something for Harry and Eddie to do. Eddie's transformation into Venom was extremely contrived given the fact that he was just in the same church as Parker was losing the suit. Every single transition, tonal switch, character choice and plot thread reeked of poor writing and terrible directing. Nolan managed to accomplish a remarkable task of giving us a complex, layered female supporting character, a menacing and intimidating villain, and keeping the strong interrelationships between the established cast and new characters going and did so with fluid precision, allowing the film to move along at a perfect pace with all the components working together like a well-oiled machine. In every measurable aspect, THE DARK KNIGHT RISES is easily the best 3rd installment of a comic book franchise ever put to screen.
Spider-Man 3 has more going for it than a lot like to admit or are capable of admitting. What’s really remarkable is that Raimi manages to play both sides of the fence. He offers fun wild action for those not smart enough to follow the intricate character motivation and development that’s been unfolding for three films. He also allows the viewer to pick up the little nuances and enjoy this movie on another level. Fans already know why Venom displays spider powers or why he doesn’t set off his Spider-Sense or why Sandman can become hard enough to smash concrete. Non-fans don’t need to deal with explanations because it offers nothing to the story itself. It really is a masterful juggling act to be honest. Knowing that you can’t please everybody, Raimi made the film on his own level. If you can follow along and appreciate the movie on his level then, great. If not, tough luck. Just enjoy the action and leave the complexities to people who aren’t interested in nitpicking the flaws that appear only in their own mind.
To clarify, Spider-Man 3 is NOT a check your brain at the door movie. I'm saying just the opposite. It has the advantage over TDKR because that's the film TDKR wanted to be but took a long-winded and poorly paced track to try and get there but even then, it falls short. TDKR is NOT a smart film at all. I'm not saying SM3 is Oscar level or extra deep but it does gives some depth with true action and adventure. The action can stand on its own and be a pure popcorn flick. The beauty of Raimi's work is that it's more than that. Mostly, I think it's smart fun because it doesn't talk down to the viewer or blatantly hold the viewers hand as if we're not smart enough to figure out certain elements (fantastical or otherwise). Unlike the tail dragging TDKR, SM3 develops characters and simply explodes when it needs to, all the while keeping a gripping pace to the film. Maybe too much so looking back.
Sp3 is the prime definition of a film that not only requires no brain power to follow, it doesn't even require the brain to be anywhere near the body. Just sit back and drool into a cup as Raimi and the associating studio insult the audiences intelligence from the first frame to the closing credits. Every single character is written, directed and portrayed without an ounce of creativity, wit or effort. The ridiculously lazy handling of Harry in the first hour is a prime example of poor film making, as he's taken out by a ridiculous soap opera cliche less than 20 minutes into the film which include him receiving the Goblin upgrade, then regains his memories, then slowly tortures MJ/Peter, then gets his face half fried, then goes for a final showdown, only for his moronic, character-less butler to tell him infinitely too late about the events of the first film, resulting in a face turn so ridiculously contrived and poorly handled that it becomes completely laughable. The pacing is atrocious. Combined with the complete lack of development of Eddie Brock before receiving the symbiote, the lazy development of Sandman's storyline, who also had a completely non-existent payoff regarding his family, to the pathetic shoehorning of him into Uncle Ben's death, the all-over-the-place characterization of Peter, the total hack job of trying to juggle tones that completely falls flat on its face, and just having no clue whatsoever where the plot or story is going at any point, it's clearly obvious that sp3 was doomed from the get go, and the ridiculous Jerry Lewis dance number was just the tip of the iceberg. THE DARK KNIGHT RISES handles its characters, both new and previously established, with intelligence, heart and sophistication, giving each of them a well developed arc with brilliantly nuanced interactions with each other, it established far more memorable villains and anti-heroes and gave a smart, proper full circle closure to its trilogy without anything coming off as contrived or out of nowhere, a task that sp3 couldn't even begin to match.
SM3 is hardly perfect, but it's half-assed reputation is quite exagerrated to say the least. It actually took more risk than its predecessors and tried new things. It may seem overstuffed to some, but the story's main focus was always on Peter Parker and his journey, so I didn't mind. Not all of it worked, but at least it managed to bring the franchise to a decent finish. That being said, none of Raimi's Spidey films are better than Nolan's take on Batman, so Nolan FTW.
Partly true. SM3's reputation is so very exaggerated and it did take many risks and quite a few of them paid off. I'd say TDKR took less risks and when it did, they often missed the mark badly. It can be argued that Raimi's Spider-Man did it better every step of the way than Nolan's Batman, both having peeked with the second films. One thing is for sure, TDKR is just a bad film any way you cut it. Comparing it to other efforts really misses that point. TDKR reputation grows worse every day and this time, it's warranted.
Given how poorly Raimi's Spider-man films have aged over the last decade, being seen as lesser quality films and their irrelevance become more apparent as days go by, it's safe to say that Nolan's Batman films have done far better for themselves and have become the more fondly remembered and regarded as the higher quality trilogy. With much better acting, characters, and more nuanced, well written scripts and direction, it's clear as to why Nolan has earned a God-like reputation. Any way you slice it, THE DARK KNIGHT RISES is a quality film, loved by the vast majority of comic readers, movie lovers and critics alike.
Maybe if you pray real hard Nolan will come shit in your mouth for Christmas.
The other thread seems to be glitching. I think I've actually managed to break the system!!! Huzzah!!!
Looks like it dead-ended at 500 comments. But, y'know, I'm claiming it as my own doing.
Yep, our long international nightmare is over. Yellowjacket is still posting comments, even though they won't go through--you can see on his recent comments that he thinks Mark Twain would love the Avengers, but that comment doesn't show up on TDK vs Avengers.
*Puts on a party hat.
Back to SM3 being the better film. I see some people talk about dancin' Pete in a bad way. To me, that's exactly what a nerd unleashed would act like. He knows little about women, relationships and, even though he's Spider-Man, grew up with no confidence and limited self esteem. It would've been wrong to portray him in any other way. It works both ways. It's funny but it also rings true. Watch the faces on the women around him as he struts, it's hilarious.
With a terribly messy, script full of lazy storytelling, Raimi's stolid direction, flat characters, and wooden acting, it's no wonder Spider-Man 3 has been so deserving slandered in Pop culture. Raimi shows that he is completely incapable of juggling tones of a film and instead, and attempts of "lighter" and "darker" moments are handled atrociously and clash every step of the way. Between this and his terrible Oz film (which has all the warning signs of Burton's Alice in Wonderland stamped all over it, it has become clear that it is high time for Sam to fold up his director's chair and stuff it in the attic. Nolan is the future of film, giving us 3 glorious feasts of cinematic delight with the 3 best quality superhero films of the 21st century.
Honestly, not copying any fake critic statements but SM3 is better because of the little nuances it delivered. Again, I'm not calling SM3 a pure classic or anything but surely better than the huge disappointment that is TDKR. Back to Peter and his spiteful dance with Gwen. It illustrates how far Peter has fallen. It's powerful and emotionally twisted. The blow MJ takes is truly stunning. Back in the day, every audience I saw it with loudly gasped when he struck her. It's THE catalyst for driving away the suit and for keeping him away and troubled. He knows that those feelings emanated from inside himself. That's what gives the story more depth across the board than TDKR. Everything Peter does in the black suit emanates from inside. Wanting to kill Sandman, hurting MJ & Harry and simply cutting loose. Like I said, MORE nuances than TDKR to be sure.
The layers of intricate subtleties in THE DARK KNIGHT RISES vastly outnumber and out rank anything Raimi could have possibly been going for. The moments between Selina and Bruce are well played out and developed as she goes from an unscrupulous thief who sees Bruce (The rich and powerful) as nothing more than another arrogant elitist who wouldn't cross the street to piss on someone if they were on fire, but then slowly sees him for the good-natured person he is as his fortune is being stripped away and yet he doesn't harbor the usual grudge that someone like that would have. When she says she's sorry, you can tell she legitimately feels that way, but doesn't pull a Sp3 by having her pound the carpet screaming it at the top of her lungs. The film doesn't bog itself down with extremely dumbed-down attempts at humor, such as dancing or ridiculous slapstick which would completely clash with the tone of the film. THE DARK KNIGHT RISES is also a much more quotable film, "nobody cared who I was until I put on the mask", is a magnificent line that reflects Bane as an example of Batman's darker reflection. Also, "The shadows betray you because they belong to me" is an ominous line that also has its own realm of subtlety, indicating that Batman will not be able to rely on the same tactics he uses to defeat Bane, but also shows Batman embracing the light as he did when climbing out from the pit towards the sun, just another example of the brilliant layered symbolism present in Nolan's scripts. There isn't a single wasted word of dialogue or any moment of inane, useless banter present, unlike so many other CBMs from other companies, Sp3 included.
Speaking of the pit scene, I find it interesting that after taking the blame for Dent's crimes, you see the Bat-pod disappearing into the tunnel lights at the end of TDK. It's here that Bruce's psychological-breakdown phase begins. We know for sure that the Bruce Wayne who wakes up the next day isn't the same resilient glimmer of hope he once was. It's only when he rediscovers fear and the will to fight back that we see him emerging from the pit's darkness into the sunny light. So, symbolically, the rough journey of the spiritually-broken Caped Crusader started with his entry into the tunnel of darkness, and ends with a headstrong Batman coming out of the other end of the passageway (the well). He has now regained his mental strength and determination.
The more time that goes by will have a lot of people calling Spider-Man 3 the better third effort. That's just the way it is, give it time.
^ Perhaps if we suddenly get transported to a universe where Superman is strangely pale and uses improper grammar.
Another point to make why SM3 tops TDKR has to do with the whole Harry Osborn psychosis bit. That plot point (unlike a few others) is actually quite brilliant. The hit on the head has NOTHING to do with any "Gillian's Island" type of amnesia. It's a more complex mental disorder that Harry is displaying. The physical trauma he endures is just an excuse for his personality to regress to a younger stage. An almost child-like personality where he has "friends he would die for" and peace in his life. Almost dying leads to many disruptions of the subconscious mind. Physically, he's fine. MJ even remarks that "there's hardly even a scar" when caressing his forehead. It's the emotional trauma of kissing MJ that forces his split personality to re-emerge. His mind is clearly fractured and it's evident throughout the film. He wasn't stable before he took the Goblin serum. Like his father, the serum led to greater depths of insanity. This is why he could flip again so easily before the final battle. Like I've been saying, SM3 does allows the viewer to pick up little nuances and enjoy the film on another level if you’re capable of doing so.
Yet another aspect of THE DARK KNIGHT RISES that makes it a superior quality piece of film-making to sp3 is the remarkable layered character development of newly introduced characters, such as Joseph Gordon-Levitt, with every scene he's in, we get to see more and more into his characters emotions, beliefs, talents. We see his frustration of being stuck in a position where he can do some good, but is stuck with tools that clash with his beliefs, such as guns (You can see it in his subtle, nuanced facial expressions), and his detective skills to see beyond Bruce's playboy persona help paint a vivid picture of his eventual ascension to continue Batman's legacy. It's also a remarkable piece of brilliant storytelling at it seamlessly connects to previous the subtler, underlying symbolic theme from the first two films. BATMAN BEGINS talked of Bruce becoming a symbol for Gotham; next, THE DARK KNIGHT showed an example of those who were inspired by him being imperfect as successors; finally, THE DARK KNIGHT RISES shows someone who can take up that mantle thanks to his mentality, skills, and relationships (Gordon), therefore validating Bruce's reason for becoming THE DARK KNIGHT in the first place. Just pitch-perfect storytelling that takes the audience on an incredible journey and enriches their minds as it does.
I disagree. The plot of Spider-Man 3 was far more focused then that of TDKR. Raimi would never sacrifice character for sensationalism and it showed. Using the black suit gave him the advantage of truly exploring the depths of Peter Parker's soul and the angst that truly drives him. It's a plot device that works perfectly even if it was forced on him by Sony. Raimi didn't even want Venom in the film.
Sp3 had no focus whatsoever. It retcons Ben's death, thus completely invalidating the whole "great power comes great responsibility" schtick, replacing it with a "shit happens" philosophy. Harry clearly had plain ol', soap opera influenced amnesia, because it reverted him back to a condition of years ago before he know of Peter's involvement with his father's death, memories which magically returned due to a cliche kiss. Everyone in the film has no discernible purpose and just strut around aimlessly waiting for some sort of direction. The exploration of Peter's psyche is handled terribly, like watching a car crash that you can't turn away from because of how awful it is.
I have to admit, I HATE the idea of The Sandman being the real killer. Getaway driver? That would have been fine but screwing with the true origin like that did piss me off. That and you could argue that Venom himself was rushed and not handled right but the black suit, Peter, MJ and Harry's arc were handled quite well.
I couldn't believe this was such a close contest, but it's just one or two of you arguing back and forth, hahaha! Spider-Man 3 was a joke and The Dark Knight Rises, a movie that I've heard people call "flawed" for no discernible reason other than that it wasn't The Dark Knight, is underrated. No contest.
TDKR is flawed on many fronts, not just because it falls short of TDK. It falls short of Spider-Man 3 also. I'd rather talk about why SM3 edges it but since it was brought up, TDKR is all illusion as fans are determined to tell you there’s more there than meets the eye. No character development, poorly done and very few action sequences, slow, mostly shallow, emotionless, borrowed themes and cliches from other movies. Honestly, that’s the complete truth.
There isn't a single area in THE DARK KNIGHT RISES that doesn't thoroughly curb stomp Sp3 into the ground. Bane is a better written, performed and far more memorable villain than Sandman, Venom and New Goblin combined. Anne Hathaway's Selina Kyle makes a far stronger impact than Gwen Stacy or Mary Jane. THE DARK KNIGHT RISES' plot is constantly moving forward fluidly without a single wasted frame or scene while Sp3 bounces around like a ping pong game with no exit. The action scenes are far more memorable and well constructed than the generic CGI-fests employed in Sp3. The raw emotion between Alfred and Bruce carries more weight than the entire cast of Raimi's very flawed effort. THIS is the truth that the vast majority of film buffs, critics and fans have accepted.
Spider-Man 3 does a better job finishing a three picture arc. Characters and plotlines that were introduced in the first two films are now given room to thrive and find their own voice and their own distinctiveness. No one unless they’re blind can say that about TDKR.
Sp3 had no idea where they were going during that arc, in fact, it wasn't supposed to be a finished arc at all. They were planning two more sequels but the reaction to Sp3 was so negative and the direction Raimi took the film in was so messy by the end that they just had to reboot it. Newly introduced characters were handled in messy, underwritten fashion and established characters were stripped of whatever positive traits the first two films gave them, which is not very much. THE DARK KNIGHT RISES was able to introduce new characters and develop them far better, and established characters were given much more thoughtful and caring treatment.
The plot of SM3 becomes more intricate, the situations become more dire. TDKR does NOT dig as deep as Spider-Man 3 does here-- these may not be the most complex characters we’ve ever seen in a super hero movie, but they are fairly well written and full of small, personal moments. They transcend their origins and become living, breathing people whom have pasts, presents. and futures. Harry and his emotional baggage, Peter and his multiple dilemmas and inter struggles, Aunt May and her wisdom all advance a story to actually care about. TDKR gives us none of that with any character not named Bruce.
Please stop with this nonsense, guys. Or there will be consequences *Devious smile*.
There was nothing involving Aunt May that made anyone care about her. She just rambled on about some event in her past in the first 15 minutes and then was never seen or heard from again. None of Peter's actions throughout the film had any effect on her, unlike Alfred, who was forced to watch Bruce throw himself into danger again after wanting him to settle down and have a normal life and it was clearly hurting him. The moment when he reveals the nature of Rachel's letter to him and the tension that results afterwards had more impact on their characters than anything between Peter and any other character in Sp3, hell, even more than their table scene in Sp2 when he reveals his hand in Ben's death. Catwoman is a far more smartly written character than anyone involved in Raimi;s production, with much richer character development. Bruce's journey, both outer and inner, was executed far more brilliantly than Peter's who simply had no direction to go to make any sort of impact. Gordon's instability during the film was a much stronger character arc than any of the supporting cast in Sp3. There isn't anything about Sp3 that isn't poorly manufactured and cliche.
At least no one can argue that Spider-Man 3 delivers better action. When super powers collide, it means more but it’s also some of the best action the genre has produced.
The scale and scope of Nolan's action scenes far overpower the jumbled messes Sp3 has on display.
HA HA HA Nolan has the rep for shooting the worst action scenes of any bigtime director. He defines "jumbled mess." The only debate is whether he shoots a jumbled mess because he can't handle action or else he's covering for the fact that the lead in all three films couldn't even move in that bat-costume. The fact that Inception wasn't much better and mostly CG indicated he has no eye for action, period.
The Action scenes in THE DARK KNIGHT RISES, THE DARK KNIGHT and INCEPTION are some of the best in the history of the business, in scope and creativity, giving us a. INCEPTION'S hallway scene is easily the most visually creative set piece since 2001's jogging scene. His remarkable use of practical effects combined with minimalistic CGI makes for fantastic looking eye-catchers. H also has a flawless knack for making his action scenes dramatically tense and suspenseful, unlike other films (*Marvel*) which are just a bunch of loud noises with little to no consequences.
This really isn't a debate. Spider-Man 3 is the better movie and the one people are still talking about, good and bad. No one will even speak of TDKR three years from now besides calling it "that disappointing end to a trilogy" that no one can quite remember why. TDKR itself is completely forgettable.
Seeing as how the vast majority of educated film goers and critics concur that THE DARK KNIGHT RISES is the superior quality piece of Film making and story telling to Raimi's drastically flawed 3rd installment, it really ISN'T up for debate. Raimi's film is so poorly executed that it makes more and more people look back on the entire Sp trilogy as overrated.
Alright. Here goes. http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4267/36167101.jpg
Yeah, people are actually going to take the time to cut and paste. But thanks for the push to top 82 posts. ;)
Mystic is on fire! You should definitely check out Spidey 3, though. It's the best thing mankind has ever done.
Also, speaking of cutting and pasting... http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/2634/35495319.jpg
TDKR was the most average movie I have seen in quite some time. As many have pointed out, what a disappointment. It was average to the point of tedium. The choppy camera action offers nothing we haven’t seen before. Most of the time, the viewer is “treated” to a dark pondering film setting up actors that deserved so much better.
The vast majority of filmgoers and Critics have made excellent points in calling that THE DARK KNIGHT RISES a strong rival for, and even THE Top Comic Book film of 2012 (With Cronicle and Dredd out), so it's pretty much a given that it's easily more than a match for anything 2007 churned out.
^ "I'm Jim Cornette, and I wish this was just my opinion, but it's the truth!"
How to respond to this.
And... JACKpot! Now, this proper match up is what everyone that visits TDKR main page will see. A batlle of the disappointing third films! The movie gods are pleased.
JACKpot! Now, this proper match up is what everyone that visits TDKR main page will see. A batlle of the disappointing third films! The movie gods are pleased.
Most childish evil plan ever.
Spider-Man 3 wins here.
In my personal opinion, I have got to say The Dark Knight Rises is a better film
To be truthful, I have only seen Spider-Man 3 once, and that was when it first came out, but I recall being pleasantly surprised after all the venom (pun intended) I'd seen spewed in its direction. Maybe my opinion of it is a product of my low expectations going in. All I know is that I enjoyed it and even got a kick out of the bit where Peter Parker turns "emo." I've also only seen The Dark Knight Rises once, except the difference is that it hasn't been years since in its case. And it may have fallen victim to the effect opposite that of the one already mentioned, with my sky-high expectations making disappointment an all but inevitable conclusion. That being said, I could find nothing to like about it. No, I'm not exaggerating. I mean nothing. When I think of TDKR, what springs immediately to mind is the fight between Batman and Bane and how sluggish and tedious it was. That, for me, was what the entire movie was like. I kept waiting for something to cause my excitement level to rise and help me forget about all the nagging problems that were dragging the film down for me, yet no such thing ever came. So, unless a rewatch of these two causes the most drastic shift in opinion ever recorded, Spider-Man 3 takes it.
Batman beats Spidey's ass worse than Bane beat Batman's ass.
Spider-Man 3 is underrated as of now. Not enough time has passed but the more Garfield's Spidey stinks up the screen the more people will come around to Spider-Man 3.
The Dark Knight Rises,At least it didn't have a sub par villain
The Dark Knight Rises. Spider-Man 3 was the prime example of not what to do with a sequel to a superhero film. Too many villains (them being uninteresting and not really threatening), the miscasting of Eric Forman as Venom which reflected Raimi not giving a shit about Venom since he didn't want him in the film, the campiness that was Peter Parker and the symbiote, and worst of all, the horrible storyline of James Franco having amnesia.
"Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in." Easily the most memorable line from the film; unfortunately, it's the only memorable thing about the film (that and cheering Sofia's demise).
^^ XD Wrong thread XD
"Shut up, just shut up. You had me at hello."
Spider-Man 3 craps all over TDKR but that's not saying much I know.
THE DARK KNIGHT RISES is easily regarded as the best third installment of a CBM trilogy by the majority of film critics and movie goers, especially over horribly written trash like sp3.
Because you know, the majority is always right. Always.
Now people are talking about defecating on each other and shit. What has this world come to?
The Dark Knight Rises is incredible. Spider-Man 3 is a train wreck. There's no comparison here.
The thought of comparing these two films is laughable. Spider Man 3 is a complete piece of shit for so many reasons I won't even get into it. The Dark Knight Rises, while it has its conveniences, is an epic and emotionally enthralling conclusion to one of cinema's greatest trilogies.
I remember liking Spider-Man 3, but I should probably watch it again with a more adult perspective. With that said, TDKR is a pretty safe bet.
The Dark Knight Rises I felt is what Spider Man 3 should have been.
spiderman 3 is really bad.I really liked TDKR.
these movies were really bad um i will go with TDKR here
This is the battle between two "third installments" that both brought an end to their respective well-received movie trilogies that were based on beloved comic superheroes. These movies are very similar in that they both are placed in that "Love It Or Hate It" kind of field, especially compared to their "second installments" that were critically-acclaimed films. I find these movies to be very similar. In fact, I've even seen both of these movies in theaters when they were first released (which is something I rarely do) and I loved both of these films will definitely try to defend them when I get the chance. However, in terms of the actual quality of their works, I'll admit Spider-Man 3 suffered from plot elements that were very aggravating (yet I think there were some other aggravating moments that were found in the other two Spider-Man films in my opinion). I believe that The Dark Knight Rises does a better job in presenting great writing, acting, and direction that I admit blow Spider-Man 3 right out of the water. I admit the plot to TDKR isn't perfect but I actually enjoy things from that movie as much and somethings even more than the first two movies. While I actually love both of these movies very much, I believe that "The Dark Knight Rises" is the better and more enjoyable movie trilogy conclusion.
TDKR by. FAR!
TDKR, but SOME parts of SM3 I liked. Only some parts.
TDKR and it's not even close
Both seriously flawed films but yeah its not even close, TDKR wins. TDKR is a thrilling blockbuster even if it's not nearly as intelligent as it's superior predecessor.
Both seriously flawed films but Spider-Man 3 at least remembered to thrill the audience and actually use its hero. TDKR is bad-mouthed for a reason.
THE DARK KNIGHT RISES is universally praised as the film that destroyed the CBM trilogy curse for a reason. Well, several reasons, really. It encompasses all the aspects that make this trilogy the most well acted, nuanced, ballsy and subversive series of films the genre has ever produced. Sp3 is still ripped on nearly 7 years later for even more reasons.
Why does it seem that some people think it's illegal to like BOTH these efforts flaws and all?
I'll just copy SquareMaster316 so he doesn't have to do anything... THE DARK KNIGHT RISES is the best because people say it's the best. It destroyed some sort of curse that plagued Comic Book Films for years. The only thing Marvel can do is rip off Nolan. Zack Snyder get your fucking hands off Man of Steel 2, you're going to ruin my precious Nolan Batman. Sp3 who gives a shit. Let me just continue to spend my entire time on the internet shouting that I hate Marvel and loooooove Christopher Nolan.
tdkr. some people didn't like film because it wasn't as good as tdk and I get it but if don't compare the 2 it's actually an epic end to an epic trilogy . sp3 on the other hand was really bad
An interesting match-up. Both Raimi's Spider-man and Nolan's Batman trilogies both had solid first movies, universally acclaimed second movies, and then a disappointing third movie. I will give the edge to TDKR since SPider-man 3 was too goofy at points and Tom Hardy was awesome as Bane.
Spider-Man 3 isn't horrible in my opinion, but it can't touch The Dark Knight Rises.
My god, i hadn't realised just how fucked this matchup was the first time I commented...
The Dark Knight Rises is simply astounding. I only wish we could have seen Sam Raimi's true vision rather than the studio forcing their way in.
Misfires at every turn but who had less?
The Dark Knight Rises was overlong with too many plot lines. Spider-Man 3 had too many plot lines but missed the bloat of TDKR. However, SM3 added some really odd humor to the mix that pushed it into the surreal territory. In the end I'll got with Spidey just because I'm a kid of the '60's and the webslinger was my guy.
Ending of the dark knight rises is simply bad..
Sp3 atleast has a desent ending
As much as i love Spider-Man, TDKR takes this
These movies still give me gas. Gas I tells ya.
I do like SM3 but this is still TDKR by a landslide.
Both are the weakest in their trilogies but Spider-Man 3 is a piece of shit whereas TDKR is at least interesting and entertaining.
TDKR by a long shot. SM3 just gets worse and worse for me every time I see it. It's not without it's moments however, and I like what it tries to do but ultimately it is a big incoherent mess at the end of the day. TDRK may not be perfect, but it is a far better movie and a worthy enough ending to its trilogy from my perspective. Even if I don't think it's quite as good as its predecessors. At the very least there aren't any scenes that make me cringe or burst out laughing when I'm not supposed to.
Wipe both of these disappointing things from pop culture history please.
TDKR has it's problems, but none on the level of the hero dancing like an idiot being a major part of the story.
The Dark Knight Rises is so bad that it makes me sad to think about it.
The Dark Knight Rises, despite all its flaws and disappointments, still kept me riveted with its intensity for over two and a half hours. Spider 3 was almost on the level of Batman & Robin, or at least Batman Forever in some of its goofiest moments which fell way flat.
The Dark Knight Rises is so disappointing and all of its flaws really does ruin the trilogy and what came before. That didn't happen with SM3 despite its drop off in quality from its second film.
TDKR is EASILY the best 3rd installment of a CBM trilogy to date, completely eclipsing the BVS redux of civil war, to compare it to unmitigated trash like SP3 is absurd and shows just how desperate and insecure Marvel nuts can get.
TDKR has so many problems that it makes most people's head spin. Craptastic.
I'll take Batman over Spider-Man every day of the week.
Looks like a lot has been said on this discussion. I'm also picking Spider-Man 3 since I'm a sucker for the old Spider-Man cast and it has some good ideas. TDKR has a lot of plot holes and most of the characters are incredibly lifeless!
Got to agreed about these are both worst bad third films that ruined both trilogies, neither of them aren't so so good but so very very bad of the series.
SM3 looks like an Oscar winner when compared to crap like TDKR. Seriously.
best Marvel movie which is also the best Spider-Man movie vs worst Batman movie which is also the Worst DC movie? Also I know they're both huge superhero trilogies but why are people comparing Sam Raimi Spider-Man to Christopher Nolan Batman they are completely different!
`spiderman 3 is the best marvel film and tdkr is the worst dc film' ^^ top notch trolling
Rises fucks spiderman 3 anyday, the dark world vs spiderman 3 would be a better comparison
TDKR stomps not even close! SM3 is hot garbage and should be compared to Catwoman.
While both are the worst in their respective trilogy in my opinion, TDKR still stomps.
while completely awful, at least TDKR isn't Rise of Skywalker bad.
TDKR makes Spider-Man 3 look like The Dark Knight.
That’s how poorly stretched-out and bad TDKR is.
other than better action nothing in SM3 is better than TDKR
Every single thing in SM3 is better than TDKR. That's a great way to look at it. Not focusing on SM3's shortcomings but what it did well.
TDKR is much better than this piece of crap.
Spider-Man 3 makes The Dark Knight Rises look like Taxi Driver.
Both are the weakest in each Trilogy. But Spiderman 3 is more of a guilty pleasure for me. It has a lot of moments I like but overall it’s a very weak movie with bad pacing, where characters are just thrown out and come back out of nowhere and suddenly are vital to the plot. The best it had going for it was Sandman but they ruin it by forcing Venom and New Goblin in to overcrowd him. When NG needed more development before ending it all like that. Like as if he should have become NG in another movie because there’s no room here. Venom definitely should have been the main villain in a different movie here because he just feels out of place and unnecessary. Not the mention some gapping plot holes and rushed ending. Though the action is still amazing. But onto TDKR, what a near-masterpiece. Amazing conclusions to the story and characters, amazing metaphors and character development, great plot, and a perfect and memorable villain. And yes TDKR is flawed, like how Bruce got back to Gotham. But they are far and in-between and there’s no awkward dance scenes. TDKR by miles. Not close even in the weirdest acid dreams.
Bruce already traveled in the outside for 7 years without anything in Batman Begins
i dont hate spider-man 3 but dark knight rises is literally the best superhero movie ever
Noobpb17, yes! I have discovered that defense recently and think it’s pretty good. I would have preferred a scene where Bruce looks at a boat before its about to take off or something, but Bruce getting back to Gotham is not nearly as big of a plot hole as I once thought.
@UberLives IS THIS YOU https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/better-film-schindlers-list-or-star-wars-episode-i-2111019/
Raimi's Spider-Man has proven itself to be the better trilogy by far.
^ if spiderman 3 was actually good that could be debatable
TDK trilogy >>>>>>>>> Raimi trilogy.
TDKR >>>>>>>>>>>>> SM3 :)
Batman Begins is way better than Spider-Man. The Dark Knight is better than Spider-Man 2. The Dark Knight Rises is far better than Spider-Man 3. Clear sweep for The Dark Knight trilogy, The Spider-Man trilogy is overrated, can’t believe there are people saying that Spider-Man 3 is better than the MCU Spider-Man movies.
BB >> SM1. TDK > SM2 (this one is actually close tho) TDKR >>>>> SM3. 1. TDK 2. TDKR 3. SM2/BB 4. BB/SM2 5. SM1 6. SM3, TDK trilogy stomps
TDKR is overall flawed but not simply more that far bad like Spider-Man 3 the annoying garbage emo parker
Spiderman 3 is garbage. the dark knight rises is the complete opposite
TDKR is true trash. No two ways about it. SM3 gets new life with Spider-Man Far From Home. Nothing can reach back and help the mess known as TDKR.
on Nov 6
Lets cut to the chase and admit that Christopher Nolan is incapable of making a film as sloppy and cringe inducing as Spider-Man 3.