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on 8/25/2009
A Lars von Trier double. Both of these films are brilliant but I think Selma's story is a bit more moving than Grace's.
on 3/17/2010
A couple of relentlessly manipulative movies by Lars von Trier that I happen to like. Dancer in the Dark is so brutally depressing that I've only sat through it once so far. I just saw Dogville a short time ago, but it's more likely a movie that I could sit through again without experiencing crushing despair. Actually, it's the endings of both movies that make a difference here. Dogville's ending is inspirational in a twisted sort of way, while Dancer in the Dark's is emotional torture. Still, the musical numbers with Bjork are a strong selling point for Dancer in the Dark... but I like Nicole Kidman, too.
on 12/2/2011
Huh. It seems like it's a day for vague words for me. I have a tough time with certain adjectives in movie reviews, and "manipulative" is the second confusing descriptive of the day (the first was "pointless"). Do not most (perhaps all), movies try and manipulate on some emotional/intellectual level? When the word 'manipulative' is used in the movie fan's parlance I guess it means 'improbable plot point/contrivance used to elicit exaggeratedly strong emotions'. I'm not sure though. My confusion stems from the idea that ludicrous and unrealistic happenings are, for me, often favourable in films. I mean, how dull would a lot of my favourite films be if they played out in a perfectly realistic fashion? But I'm gonna contradict myself in a minute. Anyway... So I just saw Dancer in the Dark; I was quite disappointed. I usually like depressing movies, primarily because they're so few and far between. Actually, I see two categories of depression in film: 1) Look at this character's life, it's so shit (ala Grave of the Fireflies, Goodbye Mr Cool and 21 Grams). 2) Look at this character's life, it's like your own. Your life is so shit. The second category is, obviously, easier to relate to, but it's usually more to do with perfunctory scenarios that reflect my own regrets/yearnings (mabe Only Yesterday, American Pie 2 and Waiting). Quite often that means they'll be unintentionally depressing. Dancer in the Dark is supposed to fall into the first category, only it was unsuccessful. There was too much 'WTF?' for it to be depressing. WTF was up with the filming? Did it need to be that handheld, shaky, documentary crap? I see what the reasoning is, I just find it counterproductive. WTF was up with the singing and dancing? Did there need to be singing and dancing (or was it included just so Lars could say "Look, weird juxtaposition! I'm so fucking arthouse")? Did the singing need to be that shrill? Did the choreography need to be that uninspired? Bjork's supposed to be a good singer, but this was not a good first impression for me. WTF is up with Selma? Right, so for a movie to be Cat. 1 depressing you should feel that, firstly, 'Character X' is likable and, secondly, X's getting way more shit than X deserves (or that X doesn't deserve any shit). I don't think Selma fits the archetype. The whole 'murder' scene was just even more WTF (this is that contradiction I spoke of). WTF was Selma thinking? WTF was Bill thinking? With such hefty stupidity, did Selma not reap what she sowed? That's part of the problem with 'Dancer in the Dark', AKA 'The Tragic Ballad of the Many Retards'. Although perhaps it's this second disability (the mental retardation) that's suppose to make one feel sympathy for Selma. I dunno. All I know is that Dancer is an average film that should have been special (no pun intended). Didn't help that I watched it with people. Depressing films are not meant for group viewing (it becomes too easy to externalise and deflect the sadness). I did like some of Lars' snipes at mass America, that's always fun (Selma's a killer AND a communist, LOL). Now Dogville OTOH was just badass. Nicole Kidman is badass, the set design is badass and the ending is badass. I felt kinda gleeful after watching Dogville. Easy win. Oh, and thanks Lars btw, I enjoyed thinking/ranting about this.
All movies are manipulative because they are showing you what they want to show you in order to bring about a particular response. I prefer to be able to respond without being pushed along with a cattle prod. With Dancer in the Dark, toward the end I must've said "Oh, come on!" three or four times. And then I had to face the horrific climax without having accepted how it got there. (Was she retarded? Anyway, I liked the song and dance parts. A person needs an active fantasy life when reality isn't cutting it. I would agree that the songs in the film aren't exactly good, but she is just a simple (retarded?) immigrant from the dreary half of Europe.)
on 12/3/2011
OK, so she probably wasn't mentally retarded in the clinical sense. Still, she was pretty damn stupid. Or just nuts. Or both.
on 5/15/2020
I truly think both are incredible, but Dancer I've simply loved longer. Lars has always been a favorite of mine :)
on 11/13/2021
Only saw Danicer In Dark. One should watch Trier.
Cleckley...Selma was trusting, she saw the world as trust.
